Today, we have an extraordinary guest on the show—Zaakirah Daniels, LCSW, a relationship architect, pattern finder, and culture shifter. Zaakirah is an endlessly curious experimenter who believes that when each of us builds a life worth living, we're collectively moving closer to the thriving world we all desire. In her latest endeavor, Zaakirah combines her social work training with her passion for mental health to help individuals master self-determination through creative self-expression. In this episode, Zaakirah shares her profound journey of reconnecting with her quiet inner guidance amidst the external noise. She opens up about the challenges and obstacles she faced while staying true to her path and the powerful process of deconditioning that has kept her aligned on her path. Join us to discover the transformative insights of Zaakirah, as she guides us towards a more authentic and empowered life.
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[00:00:00] Welcome to Uncharted Paths. The podcast that dives deep into the journeys of courageous individuals who listen to their inner wisdom and forge paths of authentic expression. In a world where conventional success often overshadows personal passion, we illuminate those who have dared to venture off the beaten track.
In season one, we're uncovering the untold stories of unique alumni from Harvard-Westlake School. You may recognize names like astronaut Sally Ride, the former mayor of Los Angeles, Eric Garcetti, and actors Jake and Maggie Gyllenhaal. But now we're shining a light on the hidden gems. I'm Lindsey. And I'm Kristin.
Join us as we explore the stories of these remarkable individuals, share their triumphs and challenges, and uncover the lesson that can inspire possibility for all, especially today's generation. It's time to follow your heart and chart your own path. Welcome to Uncharted [00:01:00] Paths.
Today we have an extraordinary guest on the show, Zaakirah Daniels, MSW, a relationship architect, pattern finder, and culture shifter. Zaakirah is an endlessly curious experimenter who believes that when each of us builds life worth living, we're collectively moving closer to the thriving world we all desire.
In her latest endeavor, Zaakirah combines her social work training with her passion for mental health to help individuals master self-determination through creative expression. In this episode, Zaakirah shares her profound journey of reconnecting with her quiet inner guidance amidst the external noise. She opens up about the challenges and obstacles she faced while staying true to her path and the powerful process of deconditioning that has kept her aligned on her path.
Join us to discover the transformative insights of Zaakirah as she guides us towards a more authentic and empowered life.
[00:02:00] Zaakirah, thank you so much for being here on Uncharted Paths. We're so excited to have you.
Thank you for having me. Thank you for the invitation.
What led you to say 'yes' today?
I said 'yes' for lots of reasons. The big one, though, is I'm working on experimenting with asking for what I want and being flexible in how that shows up in my life.
I just want to be celebrated for showing up as I am. And I want people to ask me questions, because I love questions, and they're my favorite things to ever exist on the planet. And then, it was like, I asked for it, and it showed up.
Where is your inner compass? What does that come from?
It's interesting that you say that, because I was just in an EMDR training. So I'm a mental health therapist when I'm not running the streets, and I'm training in eye movement desensitization and reprocessing therapy.
What that is all about is really realigning with true self and getting rid of conditioning that's not leading us to where we [00:03:00] want to be. So, in my part two training, when we test and do practicum on ourselves, we practice the techniques. I noticed my ears, and when my ears are noisy, I'm not in my compass. When my ears are still and silent, this is where I need to be making the decisions from, from the silence in my ears.
So then, if you look back at your Harvard-Westlake experience, what parts of that were coming from the silence or coming from the noise?
I'd say coming here, because I'm a public school kid. So, I started in ninth grade. That was noise. Coming was noise. Choosing to participate in dance and run track, silence. Applying for colleges, noise. Going to classes, noise. So, that's interesting for me. All I want to do is just [00:04:00] move my body and be free.
Be like this putty, malleable. That's my true self. Just like pink sparkle, can do whatever it needs to be doing. But then being confined? Ugh! Following a set path? Please, no. Let me like test things out.
So how did that work in such a structured environment?
I don't think it did, at all, which it's challenging to reflect on, especially with the Harvard-Westlake, what is it, the motto?
'They can because they think they can' from Westlake School. Because there was so much that I wanted to do, but there was not enough space for it. So, yeah, I can, but given the parameters and the circumstances, I can't really. And I don't think I'm alone in that experience.
And when you mention space, what kind of space are you talking about?
First word that's coming to mind is latitude, and I think that translates best to maybe [00:05:00] like space to explore, time for dedicated study in what was interesting to me.
And was it a smooth transition? A rocky transition? Or how would you describe that?
It was muddy. It was so bumpy. And my little eighth grade ego was so offended that I had already passed geometry in eighth grade and then, 'Oh my god, I have to retake geometry in ninth grade? You're telling me I'm stupid? What?'
So, that, in itself, was number one, mud. Two, relearning how to think about English as a course and the pedagogy here. Like, I could not find my footing at all. Finally found it by the end of the year, [00:06:00] right? And then coming to the upper school, start all over, brand new school, again, really culturally.
I think people in this community don't really know that transition from ninth grade to tenth grade, and even from external, not Harvard-Westlake, not independent school to ninth grade, then to tenth grade, it can get lost. But I do know from my time working here at Harvard-Westlake as an employee for a few years, that there had been a renewed kind of commitment to that transition from ninth to tenth grade.
So, that was relieving to see administration really prioritize the safety, setting students up for success a little bit more on the front end from ninth to tenth.
Are there any words of wisdom or things that you could tell younger you, for the students that might be coming from public to private school or coming in at ninth [00:07:00] grade?
You are good enough, for real. You can do it. You've gone through everything else. You're going to get through this, and you're going to learn a lot about yourself and how you learn best, which I think is one of the greatest lessons any of us can learn and figure out throughout our lives.
The image that's coming up is being at Harvard-Westlake is traversing the land. Like you have to get from one side to the other of the continent. And then there's that point where college applications, and it feels like every college is a different ship waiting at that harbor. Did you feel like you chose the ship to take on this next part of the journey, or did you feel like the ship was chosen for you?
I feel like the ship chose me.
Ooh, even better.
Yeah, so I was born and raised in California, obviously. Love Los Angeles. I was like, 'I'm staying in California.'
And coach Rich Bowman at Cornell University sent me some like interest [00:08:00] form. And I'd heard of Cornell, but I was like, 'Whatever, I'm not trying to go there.' So, I brought it to my dean, the illustrious Tamar Adegbile.
And I was like, 'Yo, Degs, um, am I supposed to fill this out?' She was like, 'Yes!' And I said, 'Oh my god, okay.' So, I filled it out, but Cornell was never top of mind for me. I thought I was going to go to Stanford or USC, clearly, I'm from Los Angeles, that's where I'm going. But no, Rich Bowman was persistent, was calling me, not even to talk about like, track, but just, 'How are you doing? What's going on? This is what we do at Cornell. Oh, you could do this, you could do this.'
Lo and behold, Cornell is where I went. I did not want to go there, but it felt that it made the most sense for me. Cornell allowed me to do as close to everything I wanted to do as I could in comparison to the other [00:09:00] schools.
Every time I think about the large shifts in my life, as reluctant as I feel during those decisions, I really do surrender to waiting to be recognized, waiting to be invited, and then checking it with myself.
'Is this what I want to do? Does this lead me closer to feeling like myself?' And that, kind of to go back to your other question, Lindsey, like, that's one of my compasses. 'Do I feel more or less like myself in this decision?'
I was wondering, from Harvard-Westlake experience to Cornell, how did that transform your ideal version of where you thought you were going to actually what happened?
Cornell, though, like being in Ithaca, I love Ithaca, New York.
One of my favorite places ever. If Ithaca wasn't in the Northeast, I like, would stay in Ithaca forever. We call it the ‘Cornell bubble,’ for [00:10:00] sure, because it doesn't feel like time exists there. I felt very still in a way, where, like, the outside world was not a thing. I had time. I had space to explore what I wanted to be doing.
Surprisingly, it did not revolve around dance, though. But I was able to breathe in a different way at Cornell than at Harvard-Westlake. Like, I was allowed to move slower. And I'm slow. Like, I'm slow. I love slowness. Important, though, I think to differentiate slow from patience. And that's a, that's a lesson. That's an experiment that I'm continuously playing with.
But, Cornell just really allowed [00:11:00] me to breathe and be more in the moment. And I wasn't searching for what's next. I wasn't super concerned with, 'Where am I gonna go?'
It stopped for me when I went to college, when I went away from noise, when I was able to get still in my ears. I think most of my time was spent just like, sighing, walking. I love that I was able to walk everywhere. Oh my gosh, absolute joy and just purity of spirit and nature and creation.
I saw chipmunks for the first time. I was able to just breathe, and I think get the first taste of, 'What can space really feel like for me?'
It reminds me of that expression, 'You get what you need, not always what you want.' So, even though your mind and you had a vision of what you wanted for your college experience, you [00:12:00] actually got what you needed at that time looking back.
For sure.
How did you navigate the shift from hyper-doing to presence to, 'What am I doing?'
So, I feel, not unique, but I feel a little funky in this, because I feel that the hyper-doing was a layer put on me or maybe like a veil. I adopted it. It was not mine. I got into the mold of hyper-doing and taking that off was way easier. And I think I'd always wanted that, but I did not have the external permission to take it off. And then getting into presence felt like, 'Yawn, stretch, this is where I'm supposed to be. This feels great.'
Like, that's not a question that typically comes to mind. 'What am I doing [00:13:00] next?' It's more, 'What's happening right now? What's going on right now?' Because that's really all I have. And this is really funny. I'm nearsighted, right? So, I can't see far away.
And that's been since third grade. So, since the third grade, I'm like really comfortable with, 'You need to focus on what's right here.' I cannot get too far ahead of myself, because shit will hit the fan if I'm all the way over there and not focusing on what is right here in front of me. It's really just one step at a time.
And, I'm comfortable in that. However, we know that when we hold multiple roles in society, when we come from various cultures that are focused on over there, reconciling that presence with future is challenging. [00:14:00] It is so, so challenging. So, I'm grateful that I have my own practices that helped me to come back.
‘What's right now?’ It makes sense, right? Have compassion. We know that we want to get to XYZ in the future, but we're not there yet. What can we do right here, right now?
Any tools or techniques that you use to cultivate presence?
I have Putty. Putty is, it helps me to ground and be centered, because I like lots of things. I'm interested in everything all the time. So, if I didn't have this in this space, I'd be like looking at the lights.
I'd be looking over here. 'Oh, what is the pattern that is going on with those cords? Wow. That kind of looks like this.' I would be everywhere. So, having something to touch helps me a lot. Having like even just like really nice textures. I love textures. Even like in sessions with clients, I will have like this really fuzzy blanket or something [00:15:00] velvet. It's just something that can let my mind do this so that my body can be present. Breath is also something that we teach folks to do a lot. Focus on your breath, but that can be hard for people.
Or even recently, I've been letting my body do what it wants to do. My right side of my body, my right leg is going through some muscular things. Sometimes it needs to shake for a bit, and that can be weird in public. People are like, 'Oh my God, is that woman okay? Her leg is shaking uncontrollably.' But I'm like, 'I need to let my leg shake, because that's what my body wants me to do.' But it takes some time to cultivate that trust in self to let your body do what it needs to be doing. And I don't have any really cute ways to tie that up in a bow, how to cultivate that trust yet. So, maybe that's something for later.
Did you feel like once you left Cornell it was a solid [00:16:00] paved road or more of one stepping stone at a time?
Like, dread coming back. It felt like coming back to real world. I think just leaving Cornell felt like going back to the real world. 'Oh, God. Now I have to make a decision of what I want to be doing next.'
Doesn't help when you have your parents like, 'You can't just have a summer break, you gotta work.' 'I want break. I've been working for a very long time, for four years. As a D1 athlete, we don't really have summers off. Can I have some breath time?' So, that was challenging, and I felt scrambly trying to find the next steps.
The next steps didn't reveal themselves to me as much as I maybe brushed for them, maybe dug for them. I did dig for my next steps coming back, and I did not like that experience to get on to the first step.
Finding the first [00:17:00] step was not fun, not playful for me at all. I did it out of dread and maybe some guilt, which is not a good feeling to have at all. So, my first step, I was a first grade classroom teacher. Super cool once I got there. But after the first step, things started to reveal. And then, next step revealed itself, and I was recruited to work at Harvard-Westlake to build the HW Works program and succeed wonderful Harry Salamandra. And I was here for six years, I think, something like that. So, those were steps that were easier to recognize, because they were there.
You talk about being invited to decisions that may be unexpected, but aligned. What advice would you give to younger you feeling the outside [00:18:00] pressures. What would you have liked to have heard?
Actually something that I told myself in my EMDR training that came to me was, 'Everything is figureoutable.' Take whatever step you want, even if you're just putting one toe down. Everything is figureoutable. It is okay. You can always pivot. You can always get back on the dang boat if you need to.
But everything is figureoutable. Whatever choice you make is just, and actually it's a decision, but whatever decision you make is just a decision. We make millions and billions of decisions throughout our entire lives. It's okay.
Do you think you would have found that same first stepping stone regardless of how you were feeling in the situation and your approach? Or do you think that the process was part of finding that?
That journey was definitely the first step to help me get really in tune with what feels not me, what feels out of alignment, what feels forced, [00:19:00] so then I'd be more likely to recognize what feels like ease and flow.
And wanting to play and dance went away due to your external circumstances?
Dance is one of my anchors and my first love. I was dancing before I could speak, so that's super cool. I'm trying to remember when I stopped dancing, because I danced through high school. I danced through college. I danced at 'A Club Called Rhonda,' what, what, from 2014 to like maybe 2018, and that's when I started grad school.
Moment of silence for grad school. Because I got it in my mind that the best way for me to get my grad degree was to be working full-time at Harvard-Westlake running HW Works. And with my degree, so I studied social work, there is a practicum internship component. So, for a year and some change, 2018ish to 2019, I had a full-time job, [00:20:00] was doing classes in the evenings, and also had an internship.
I do not recommend, like, zero out of ten, do not recommend that to anybody. However, if that's what you need to do to make it happen, then obviously you're going to make it happen. But during that time I was not moving, like, not free form moving. There was no joy.
It was all rote. It was mechanical, and it was really for a purpose. And I'm so grateful that it's in my past, because that was a rough, rough time. And it lasted really up until spring 2022. So, 2022 was when I was like, 'I need to change something.'
And I was working a different job. I had left Harvard-Westlake by this time. I was getting my first chunk of hours towards my license in clinical social work, working in community mental health. Those are some real superheroes who work in community mental health. [00:21:00] And it was not doing well for my body.
So, I said, 'Let me go dance. Let me figure something out.' I did not go back to the dance I was trained in. I was trained in classical Russian ballet and jazz, but I was too scared to go back into what I knew, because I didn't think that I would be as good as I wanted to be. So, I found something else that was pure fun, chose salsa dancing. And I've been salsa dancing ever since.
How was it navigating external pressures or comparison of watching other people around you and what they were doing with careers?
The quote, 'comparison is the thief of joy,' right? But words are only words. Behaviors and embodying thought is a completely different story. I, kind of, navigate. I think being at Harvard-Westlake conditions folks maybe like me, maybe like [00:22:00] us, to seek recognition from the public in a grand way that is maybe not what we all really want.
Forbes 30 Under 30?
Oh my God, like, what even? Whose brain is thinking that that's a good idea? When we think about life and the world on a grand scale, what? Anyway, so with that seeking of recognition and yes, we're very proud community. I love that about us. We, we like to celebrate each other.
Amazing. However, when folks who maybe are quote unquote more high profile than others tend to get more of that celebration, that is creating that hierarchy that I don't want to be a part of. I [00:23:00] don't do hierarchy. That's just my own personal thing.
But with that conditioning, sometimes I do get pulled into, 'Oh, am I not shiny enough? Look at me shine and sparkle. Can I get some of that celebration?' But then I'm like, 'Girl, that is not you.'
I do have blinders on. And when the blinders fall off is when I'm out of alignment. I have to keep my blinders on. I have to be selfish or self-absorbed, because it's my life. That's what I'm here for, for myself. Not for all this other noise. And, so, feeling that push pull is so trippy.
And I think I'm getting really good at spotting, 'Uh oh, your blinders are off.' It's okay, right? We can have compassion, like, 'That makes sense. But also, let's come back to center, [00:24:00] groundedness, come back to you. That's not you.'
And speaking of recognition, you talked about the accolades, the awards, the grades. How are you bringing that validation internally as you chart your uncharted path?
From an early age, I could feel, I could sense that metrics for everybody else were not applying to me and, in the sense, that I didn't want them. Like, grades, ugh.
I just processed this in EMDR. One of my eighth grade teachers, she gave me really horrible grades. I don't think I earned horrible grades. I was just like thinking way outside the box and folks couldn't keep up.
That's okay. So early on, I was like, 'Oh, this is not how I want to be validated.' Like, I have C's on my Harvard-Westlake [00:25:00] transcript. I have C's on my Cornell transcript. I think I have a D on one of them as well. Like, I don't care about grades. I care about soul recognition, presence.
When folks tell me, like, 'Oh my gosh, you're so present.' I'm like, 'Oh, I made it. I'm done. I'm doing exactly what I need to do.' Or, 'Thank you for listening. I feel so held with you.' Melt. Like, that's, that's what I live for. I live for and feel recognized and validated by the breath of people feeling like themselves in my presence.
Because when you are that, we can be that as well.
It's like we can all take our Spanx off together.
I love.
Let's all take our Spanx off. Take your Spanx off and take a breath.
That's cute. That's so cute.
If you could rewrite society's form of [00:26:00] recognition, like instead of a Forbes 30 Under 30, what would you want people to be recognized for?
Oh my gosh. I just want to live in a world, and this is like, I guess my mission, but live in a world where everyone is celebrated for who they believe themselves to be. And, folks can find their people where they can be their full selves and rest and feel safe in their full selves. So, I guess that would be like if everyone can find their people type thing.
And we'll just have like cool little communities of people of finding their people, and then they can mix and mingle however they want to.
Yeah, it's find yourself to find others.
Yeah! Yeah.
And talking about your conditioning, talking about the recognition. How would you describe yourself without the conditioning?
I am sparkly pink goo that can conform to whatever container it's in, but it can't be in there for too long.
[00:27:00] It needs to come out. It needs to be played with like this putty. It's just always, kind of, moving at this, not molasses, maybe like, I don't know what this is, but it's viscous. It's just like an octopus pace is what it is. Yeah, I've been working with octopus a lot lately. And that's the playful, you know, like, who would describe things like that? I don't know, maybe a six year old. That's me.
Oftentimes people feel that internal expiration date on something, but they stay beyond because of other factors. How do you know when you're ready to, using your example before, transition to a new container?
It's a sense. My body starts to harden. It starts to constrict. And when it starts doing that on its own, like in preparation for something, I'm like, 'Uh oh, [00:28:00] bad news bears, we gotta get out.' When I constrict in response to something, that's different, like we're still feeling it out, we're still investigating, but when it starts to protect going into something, wrap it up.
You gotta get going. I don't think I felt that though until leaving college and starting on this path of, 'How do I start showing up in the world next?' And really testing out, 'Where do I feel less like myself? Where do I feel more like myself?'
And feeling the closing, the less like myself. Okay, this is when we need to start creating, maybe not leave right now, but start, create your exit plan. Start putting things in place for you to recognize the next steps.
That's such a beautiful way to honor both your internal cycle and then also be present and match the world around you.
And [00:29:00] that takes work. It is not something that I think any of us are born knowing off the bat. It takes patience. Overall, it's an experiment in trust, but in, like, trusting yourself, in trusting your decisions from the past, in trusting, like, 'Did I set myself up to be able to figure out the next things?' Because everything is figureoutable.
But, 'Have I really set myself up to do this?' The answer is always 'yes.' But having that conversation with yourself and like getting really real and honest about, 'What are we doing?' is absolutely bonkers and freeing when you can honestly allow yourself to accept that you do trust yourself.
What are those couple of things that you'd want people to take away from this conversation, put [00:30:00] in their pocket to continue their uncharted path?
You're doing way better than you think you are. You trust yourself more than you think you do. All you gotta do is sparkle and shine and really make time to listen to yourself, whatever that looks like. Maybe it's listening to your body. Maybe it's listening to your own voice. Maybe it's going left down the street instead of going right one day.
Make little moments, big moments, whatever kind of moments you have in your day, in your week, in your month, blah, blah, blah, to listen to yourself. Because yourself wants what's best for you. Always. Always, always, always. Like we're smarter and more intuitive than we think we are, which is so magical.
It's like, we just gotta listen.
Maybe just like, go dance, people. Go dance.
Move your body.
Move your bodies. Yeah.
And where is your North Star taking you after this [00:31:00] conversation?
I'm in a season of clearing and making space. Right now I'm closing a cycle. I'm about to take my licensing exam. So, clearing some things out, getting ready for the next part of sparkly pink octopus movements.
Well, we're so grateful that you joined us today.
Of course.Thank you for having me. Thank you for recognizing me. Thank you for the invitation and for allowing me to play with my expression today and to just be free. It feels real safe and good and gooey and just like, it feels right in here, like my ears are very still.
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of Uncharted Paths. We hope you feel inspired to carve out your own unique journey and embrace the courage to follow your passions. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to Like, Subscribe, and [00:32:00] Share. Stay connected with us on social media for updates and behind the scenes content. Links are in the description below.
Until next time, keep exploring, dreaming, and charting your own uncharted path.